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@joe.wright set the channel purpose: Paper Session 4: Novel MIs

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*Circularity in Rhythmic Representation and Composition* Paper 96 in proceedings *Interfacing Sounds: Hierarchical Audio-Content Morphologies for Creative Re-purposing in earGram 2.0* Paper 103 in proceedings *Al-terity: Non-Rigid Musical Instrument with Artificial Intelligence Applied to Real-Time Audio Synthesis* Paper 65 in proceedings *Composing Popular Music with Physarum polycephalum-based Memristors* Paper 98 in proceedings *Demystifying tabla through the development of an electronic drum* Paper 116 in proceedings

Live now with paper session 4 - see you there!

Zoom: https://us04web.zoom.us/j/76457689201?pwd=U3dYaEI4dkdKS09BWDgrd0czU2xHUT09

Don't forget to post your questions!

Just in case we have issues with Zoom Captions, this is the link for the external captions: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=NIME220720

awesome music

Could you talk a bit more about your pitch mapping and its relation to rhythm?

have you thought about possible ways to use Cycle in a live situation (as in interface it to some sort of controller)?

Is there a way/would you consider enabling dynamic changes in the position of each individual point in the circle? I.e. so that the points could move in an interpolated way between different states?

Would it be possible to sync with external midi gear - i.e. use cycle to control a midi coltrolled synth.

(to echo @mario.buoninfante)

In terms of non-linear representations of time, are you aware of https://www.iannix.org/en/whatisiannix/?

You mentioned color being a significant feature. Have you considered accessibility towards people with color blindness?

Great development! I used https://www.iannix.org in the past to create similar rhythmical interfaces

are your refeneces available?

(iannix is CRAZY!)

Do you mean crazy good or crazy bad?

it is crazy good

Hi @sdbarton really love the ideas in your work, I've signed up for beta - very keen.

but does not focus on circular rhythms but any geometric shapes or forms

thx much, happy to have you in the beta!

Can you supply a list of the other references you mentioned? Chronomorph etc... (i'm actually hunting for a wonky rhythm software i found years ago which lets you put circles within circles and takes advantage of a kind of rhythmic doppler shifting phenomenon)

absolutely - in the paper

but IanniX has quite a steep learning curve, and it not built for a single purpose, so Cycle will definitely have its fans! I signed up :)

awesome, thanks for the interest!

Keep those questions coming folks!

could you tell us a bit about the generative side of it? maybe how it deals with mid and high structures

Can you say something about the reproducibility of the interaction with the interface? can you record the interface gestures and apply to other sounds/processes/

Are you happy with the state of the art in onset detection and downbeat estimation? Is it good enough for a multi-purpose tool like earGram? How does it work with e.g., the sound scape, which doesn?t have a clear rhythm? Or how do you divide into links?

hi Julian - for very stable (EDM) music as the one I showed, it works pretty well both beat and onset detection algorithms. For soundscape sources, not so much, you need some trials before you get some good results. If you are interested in some recent proposed tools within Supercollider/PD/Max look at the Flucoma project. They did a great job at this task.

there's a mic open

presenters, please mute your mic!

yes please

I think it's @gba

Mic open!

I am mute

@gba???

can the host mute participants?

I hear Portuguese....-:)

Muted!

thanks :slightly_smiling_face:

Hi Vahakn, did you find the paper in the proceedings? If not, I?m happy to send. SB

Did you experiment with different polymers with different elasticity (for example) for the actual physical instrument to see how that influenced the relationship between performer, device, and the generated music?

Hi, the instrument looks great. You talked about its performance being idiomatic and unusual. Would you be interested to eventually implement some level of control and determinacy in the instrument's sonic outcomes, and if so, how may that be possible while retaining the existing principles of operation?

To piggy back on that, what was the role of performer's agency in the design of the instrument?

Hi Koray, fascinating form! what sensing methods are you using to detect changes in the object shape, and what is the material/texture/flexibility of the object?

@koray.tahiroglu thanks, great to hear your take!

Martin Marier's work comes to mind! http://www.martinmarier.com/wp/?lang=en

@manolimoriaty good to see you, thanks !

@matthew.mosher velostat pressure sensors, nothing too complicated, you can find the details in the paper

It is all around, performer is the instrument builder, also the one who wrote the composition for this instrument.

A bit expensive to print with this material, the benefit here is the level of stiffness that we could get

@koray.tahiroglu thanks for that: hope to see you perform with it one day! How difficult to train are these GANs you explored? Do you need lots of data, time, GPUs?

Thanks for the great talk! Have you considered using Al-terity in some form of public installation instead of live music performances? It looks like its material affordances could enable non-musician people to explore the (potential) diversity of sounds produced by the GANsynth model in a relatively accessible (and possibly collaborative) way

@marije And so O?Modhrain and Essl's PeebleBox and ScrumbleBag... :)

@hugo.scurto Great question!

Great, thank you!

@o.green good to see you here, creating data set is not hard, but training checkpoints takes more time, we used our school cloud service , each takes 4 - 5 days

Good idea, maybe even with a bit bigger form, that could be a good potential public installation.

I don?t remember the amount of GPUs, but they allow us to use a limited amount of them anyways since we are not the computer science department :)

@satvik.venkatesh Are there plans to feed audio instead of midi, mapping differently?

You are muted James.

@satvik.venkatesh Very cool. How scalable is the physical part of the system?

Is _Physarum polycephalum_ a region specific species?

@satvik.venkatesh you say 'composed by' a few times: is this a metaphor, or did you get a solid sense of compositional agency from the slimemould networks?

There will be a paper presentation on Past, Present and Future of Non-rigid Musical Interfaces, there you will see more example, you can find our previous work there as well.

Paper Session 14: HCI / New Interfaces / Instruments, on the 25th "Non-Rigid Musical Interfaces: Exploring Practices, Takes, and Future Perspective"

Can someone with long fingernails play the tabla? :)

The hand that plays the larger drum would need short nails

Left hand? That means right-handed guitar players can play tabla! Ordering the electronic tabla in 3... 2... 1...

Anyone can play tabla! :laughing:

One advantage of vocal teaching with tabla is that you can teach subtly different pitch bends very precisely. Have you considered this with your stave system?

Is there any intermediate instrument? by this I mean alternative material for the drum heads, modern tuning screws, etc. ?

Congratulations @laurel.pardue and team! What sensors are used for such accurate pressure and position sensing? Are there available DIY similars that have this? Is the sound generated from external speakers?

Sorry folks I'm having a technical issue with Zoom!

looks fantastic though and definitely solves a lot of problems!

we can hear you

Looks great! When will it likely be available? :slightly_smiling_face:

zoom'ed out too far? :wink:

Looks like a very well developed drum! Nice!

CONGRATULATIONS! looks outstanding

@marije Nice pun!

:slightly_smiling_face:

What are the challenges for mass producing it wordl wide?

*delivery

I'm not very familiar with tablas, but are they expensive instruments? could this be also a path to make them more affordable?

How close is it to being expressive for skilled players?

Nice to know you have patented a new sensing technology! It is still what are keeping these technologies in companies like Roli, Roger Linn Instruments and Keith McMillen Instruments and away from the DIY and research community. Can't wait for a DIY solution!

I guess my question more is

for guitarists there are midi guitars

but don't play quite like the original

mmmm great point

How about the haptic feedback? Does it feel like you are playing a Tabla?

Along with the notational developments, have you thought of new ways to teach others how to play the instrument? What sorts of musical traditions could these be situated in?

Nice work @laurel.pardue, @kuljitbhamra and the rest of your team!

congratulations

Fantastic work! Congratulations, @laurel.pardue and @kuljitbhamra

:clap:

:clap::clap::clap:

Thanks to all the presenters!

As an academic, I'm looking forward to when I can share it.

If you check out http://keda.co.uk, Kuljit has made a number of great videos and books to help students self-teach themselves tabla. Part of the goal is to see tabla spread beyond Indian playing which a lot of other traditional instrument have already done.

Tabla already features in a lot of movie scores and is sampled quite a bit, but usually it is expected the tabla player will just do their thing. It has been challenging to compose for tabla as a non-player as that's not really within the tradition.

I really admire you have made it! Congratulations! I don't want to take away any merit of it for being closed. I actually am really happy to see a commercial and innovative product at the conference and fully understand how important it is to protect this knowledge! I wish there were more papers like yours among us and with all the success for the product!

Thanks!

Sorry I had to miss this session! As I watch the videos does it make sense to still ask questions here?

Absolutely Joseph, this is what paper channels are for! Use them for the remaining days of the conference!

thanks :slightly_smiling_face:

And also after the end of the conference - we plan to leave the slack channels open for another week or two.

@sdbarton another related interface/instrument worth noting is Rui Penha's Políssonos (2007): https://vimeo.com/853673

It is important to mention that performer is the one who is making the music, so that is why performer?s role is all around in this music making experience with Al-terity, as instrument builder, composer and performer. I am a bit having issues with the word ?design? though :)

Hey Joseph. Thanks, that is cool. It has similarities to XronoMorph https://www.dynamictonality.com/xronomorph.htm in the focus on geometries and rhythm, and the 3D representation in the middle is beautiful. The approach to sequencing is also elegant.

ill have a dig!

Actually, my comment was not referring to the split/unified roles of performer, composer and builder. From the perspective of a member of the audience [like me], it seems that the instrument devolves great part of the "control" to the AI, leaving the performer with a narrow [but I have to say very fascinating] range of action, not far from the micro-movements investigated by @a.r.jensenius. My question is: *was this a deliberate choice, or was it somewhat imposed by some characteristics of the AI?* I am getting more and more interested in any discourse about how performer and AI share their space within DMIs and I'd love to hear your experience. I guess @f.morreale and @charles.martin may also point me to other perspectives published in the literature. Let me add that my perception of Al-terity also suggests an incredibly intimate autotelic experience, which I'd love to try and reminded me of your NOISA performance at NIME 2015 [we should have some kind of hashtag to reference previous NIMEs!]. Also, if you have time could you please elaborate on the issues you have with the word "design"? Do you feel that this instrument was NOT "designed"? Does this relate to the presence of the AI?