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@joe.wright set the channel purpose: Paper Session 8: Bespoke / Adaptable ADMIs

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*PDF papers for this session:* ? Wright, Joe* The Appropriation and Utility of Constrained ADMIs *Paper in Proceedings: 110* ? Skuse, Amble H C *; Knotts, Shelly Creating an Online Ensemble for Home Based Disabled Musicians: Disabled Access and Universal Design - why disabled people must be at the heart of developing technology. *Paper in Proceedings: 22* ? Cavdir, Doga*; Wang, Ge Felt Sound: A Shared Musical Experience for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing *Paper in Proceedings: 34* ? Vieira, Romulo A*; Schiavoni, Flávio Luiz Fliperama: An affordable Arduino based MIDI Controller *Paper in Proceedings: 73* ? Sen, Sourya; Tahiro?lu, Koray*; Lohmann, Julia Sounding Brush: A Tablet based Musical Instrument for Drawing and Mark Making *Paper in Proceedings: 64* ? Chris Kiefer Shaping the behaviour of feedback instruments with complexity-controlled gain dynamics *Paper in Proceedings: 66*

** Paper session number 8 is going live in 10 minutes. Get ready because it's going to be one filled with papers!

Zoom: https://us04web.zoom.us/j/77132716228?pwd=SXZjdHJLbnZiTUNqWlJuM0VQbXdIdz09

Just in case we have issues with Zoom Captions, this is the link for the external captions: https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=NIME230720

5 minutes to go!

_waiting for the host to start the webinar..._

Hi all, please remember to @authors when you have a question and keep all the amazing questions coming !!!

nice to seeeee you!

@joe.wright started his paper presentation

[hello @lauren.s.hayes, @f.schroeder - I'm late to the party, nice to see yous]

Any questions forming for @joe.wright?

@joe.wright could you explore how drawing the gestures helped you analyse the sessions? Was this more of an informal analysis, or did drawing end up being an essential portion of the methodology of this study?

@joe.wright great work. how crucial, then, do you think was this quantification/representation of gesture here, beyond what could have been observed without? I.e. thinking about lining up mixed methodologies here...

@joe.wright when working with this population, how do you determine the extent to which the work is serving them / their needs / their interests?

Thank you so much Joe. I really appreciate the child-led, gesture-focused, co-production elements of the design process. Incredible work!

Beautiful and inspiring presentation @joe.wright!

Great work @joe.wright! I'm wondering if you could talk about the balance between just building something and letting people discover its affordances (hidden or otherwise) versus trying to design for/with those people. Do you think you would see the same discovery of hidden affordances if you were designing instruments to someone's specification?

@joe.wright I don't want to monopolise the chat, but I have another question: Considering that you have shown yourself playing with a saxophone feedback system towards the end, have you ever thought of comparing your playing with the data gathered in your study?

@joe.wright thanks for your comprehensive answer! MOCO deals with similar questions too... Much to explore here!

2nd paper, Amble Skuse, and @knotts.shelly

@skuse @knotts.shelly have started their paper

You were quicker!

just trying to help!

@skuse @knotts.shelly thanks for your critical perspective here, many of these statements can (of course) be extended to the work of our community in general

Like an overdue manifesto. Excellent provocation.

@knotts.shelly This is great work and thanks for careful and detailed exposition of the issues. The issues you identify here are not just relevant to the NIME community but are encountered in so many areas of research, other academic practice, software development/engineering, teaching resource production etc etc. Your point about attitudinal shift is the key...

Can i get a 'hell yeah'?

Wow! Amazing work

amazing, thanks

@skuse @knotts.shelly fantastic paper! thanks for your work in articulating this important perspective. i hope that the community will read this paper and reflect on this seriously. i hope that we can stop seeing NIME proposals that say 'this could be used by disabled people' which crop up so often in peer review...

Fantastic presentation. Attitudinal shifts should come before 'technical solutions'

Amble Skuse & @knotts.shelly This is such a great paper to have at NIME this year, thanks!

Very nice work! You might already seen this but might be of interest to others: https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3334480.3381828

@knotts.shelly QUESTION: Have you followed this 'model' successfully yet? How do we avoid giving value to the claims that this kind of development is 'expensive'?

Amazing, great points!

@skuse @knotts.shelly Such articulate and thoughtful language, manifesto indeed. Thank you and congratulations.

@skuse thank you for comments

Great presentation @ambleskuse @knotts.shelly, thank you for presenting at NIME this year.

Yes, let us stop finding that disabled people are the subjects of research which is done somewhere else and then given to them, taken away and revised and returnedwith the new modification. We are often a tool for a piece of research which will take an academic to the next level, not so much the disabled musician.

Great presentation @joe.wright ? really inspiring. Sorry for the delay ? my internet connection has only just come back.

^^^^YES

Is the experience of carrying out the research which led to this presentation a case for strengthening the change of thinking about funding from cost (spent) to value (created)?

Let's be honest: a lot of this gets beyond peer review. We need to do better as a community here.

I think we need to think (not just in NIME but generally also) about how our technology design, assumptions et al is disabling people, rather than whether our technology can be used by 'disabled' people (i.e. starting, as Shelly so eloquently conveyed, from a social understanding of disability, not a medical one).

@cavdir next

is amble on slack?

Very important points by @ambleskuse @knotts.shelly - and the need to rethink our NIME ecosystem!

i don't think she is but she's on twitter! @AmbleSkuse

in the paper we describe what we did so far in the project which is essentially 2 rounds of software development and testing. by necessity it's a long form project!

I did not see her either

no she doesnt have an account

that was amble!

There is a channel for access here: #nime-access-and-ecosystem

I?d love to get to MOCO at some point soon! I?ll keep an eye out for the next one :slightly_smiling_face:

Oops - sorry, still eloquently put though! Thanks for the great work.

i've forwarded your comment on to her :wink:

Thanks :slightly_smiling_face:

ok brilliant - i look forward to reading.

oh thanks, Amble may have read this already but I haven't, will check it out :slightly_smiling_face:

Keep your lovely observations and questions coming ! @cavdir

From Amble: If we cost in making something wrong in the first instance then having to adapt it for disabled people then access is expensive. However if we design things properly in the first place then we don?t see disabled people as expensive additional costs. Also the cost of lost contributions to society is incredibly expensive. Also we need to rethink how we value human life and contribution. Can you measure people financially? What is the value of a human life?

yess! that's the point with universal design - that if we design for as wide a range of people as possible the design is fundamentally better and everyone benefits.

Very nice @cavdir. It may be in the paper, but could you talk a little more about what types of frequencies worked better for the vibrotactile feedback?

I?m very interested in the relationship between gesture and meaning that this work engages ? ?gesture? as a term to describe a musical feature, or a quality of musical expression versus ?gesture? as communication and language representation. Obviously gesture can mean many things; I?m wondering if this is something that you had to consider when developing the project for participants with different levels of hearing? Different understandings of the role of gesture.

A fine argument!

I'd been keen to know your thoughts on the accessibility of the NIME conference online. Both in general, but also about the academic style of presentation delivery. I'm finding the descriptions on the site hard to decipher and the presentation styles (mimicking that of scientific academia) very hard to digest. I'm concerned that the barrier to access for all this content is a big one. And that the way this content is delivered excludes the demographics of people which it is 'talking about' / 'designing for'.

congrats to you both on the paper!

@cavdir what was the starting point, especially in light of the previous presentation, I think that it is important to state why you are doing this project. Were deaf and hard of hearing involved from the beginning?

Specific example 1: Putting text and diagrams on the screen and reading a paraphrased / differing text. (In your presentation you read exactly what was on screen - which worked well) Specific example 2: Using jargon and expecting attendees to understand them without explanantion.

As a member of the deaf community who can experience high sounds more effectively, I often feel sub-segregated within technology for d/Deaf people, I wonder if you have looked at integrating high frequency sound also?

I would love to hear more about that. What type of frequencies are working well for you? Any references to material about this?

Specific Example 3: Reading a written academic text - not tailored to spoken language or comprehension via listening.

@vieira, Romulo @Schiavoni, Flávio Luiz up next !

Thanks Clare for your feedback. We did not include high-frequency sounds in the first performance. But I would love to hear more about your experience

Oh, I?d be interested in a discussion about this! I think there?s an answer in this classic resource Verrillo, Ronald T. ?Vibration Sensation in Humans.? In _Music Perception_, 281?302. California: University of California Press, 1992. ? on page 282 you can see a graph with the threshold of detection versus the frequency. But I think it highly depends on the actuator used, and in my experience it?s also highly subjective.

(I say in my experience because I?m in the industry and not in academia, and we didn?t publish our user research)

Questions for the current work?

Thanks, @marije. We had ASL speakers involved in the project and a deaf composer/musician. We discuss our motivation in our paper, too. It was mainly Deaf and Hard of Hearing communities' experience of music and physical sensation of in-air vibrations. Transforming expressive movement qualities from a non-musical gestural domain was crucial too.

@vieira, Romulo @Schiavoni, Flávio Luiz are the costs that you mention for your controller (~$40) materials costs (e.g. for parts, fabrication, etc.) or production costs including labor?

What is the price of labor? Depends on the value assigned to you

fascinating perspectives.

Interesting questions. low cost devices in Brazil is a challange.

Also, in Brazil, There is also the lack of industry. So, is it quite hard to find components etc.

Great work! congratualtions!

Great project, cost is definitely an issue for many. The interface is only one part, though, what about sensors?

Thanks @julian and @a.r.jensenius! I believe the vibration sensation thresholds might vary based on how it was sensed/detected. eg. from auditory channels, on skin or through a medium. I would love to discuss this more.

As an education project, the making process would also be part of the project. So, students would do the labor, building their own devices. Of course, this also arises some ethical points.

@ayruos is next !

:wave:

I know that Amble has opinions on this. I think she's trying to join Slack to answer questions.

I completely agree. And as a professor of?for the lack of a better term?a "developed/privileged" country, I'd still prefer my students to build their own devices as opposed to buy an expensive MIDI controller coming with a useless software GUI

Thanks @aweisling for your question! like you mentioned, gestures in sign languages are different than musical gestures or co-speech gestures and they have clearly defined meanings. We focused on their meaning in the composition but did not create a narrative based on the sequence of gestures. Unfortunately, we were not able accommodate many listeners or users with different level of hearing impairment and ASL experience. It would be great to explore more how different users interprets the meanings of ASL words

One intersting place to look at ASL song interpretations and dance performances of deaf dancers and ASL speakers

Any questions?

A fantastic project! How did you decide on the nomenclature for brushes and do you expect users to anticipate the resulting sonic behaviour correctly?

The project is available here: https://github.com/SopiMlab/SoundingBrush

@ayruos have you seen the musical drawing instrument Different Strokes (NIME 2006)? The creator @mark.zadel is around here somewhere... https://youtu.be/VstsXh6RlLU

@ayruos Interesting project, do you think the project could be enjoyed by disabled musicians?

@c.kiefer on now!

Final paper of this session!

And also in the break you can explore the installations! https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/installations/

I hope I answered this in the Q&A?

I'm not aware of this project, will check it out!

sorry im confused - who gave the talk "Creating an Online Ensemble for Home Based Disabled Musicians: Disabled Access and Universal Design" was it Amble or yourself?

Absolutely, thanks!

This is a long answer! As we found out when we presented this in the Soundform conference, demoing it to a wide variety of people, including people with disabilities, it depends on the levels of disability. On one hand, drawing came very naturally to many and just touching the app would produce different audio and visual material without needing much prior information. However, on the other hand, certain people did have trouble using the Apple Pencil and/or the iPad in combination to be able to draw properly. Additionally, the UI could be rethought of for making it more accessible.

I?ve worked a lot alongside theatre makers and young people, where the aim is to co-create art, and bridge lingual/sensory perspectives. Very often it can take a while to get good collaborative play/exploration started in the devising stages of this work, where everyone is seen and listened to. The hope with this work (and the delayed plans for this to be a long term project) is to find better working methods & tools to do this. The result would be that the kind of performances I?ve been a part of in the past can be informed much more directly by the intended audiences for these shows, and much less by the assumptions / habits of the people putting the shows together. With better methods, perhaps more of the devising time can be spent exploring materials together as well, speeding up the time spent getting to know the people involved in making the work. In the paper I try to frame this as an ?ice-breaking? tool, It?s also worth saying that this is a problem that needs to be addressed on all levels, and some small findings in constrained instruments & non-verbal methods won?t come close to solving that problem alone. It also needs more diverse casting, directors, accessible funding & casting systems etc. Another important issue is moving inclusive performance / sensory theatre from schools to theatres, and making sure everyone can experience art in the same spaces, not just in segregated environments. Oily Cart?s recent productions have been trying to address this, but even with their resources and funding, they?re finding that even the ways that they?re taught / used to making theatre are inaccessible in lots of ways. Hopefully that answers your question?

Thanks everyone

Questions for @c.kiefer?

The secondary aim of the longer-term project was to use this as a starting point for designing a set of modular instruments with the group that remain in the schools music department / music service as a by-product to the sessions, and also open source these designs. I?m trying to find ways that this can still happen

Did you consider or try using the ETC ouput to change something other than the gain? (E.g. for example, slightly change the modes in the reverb)

Can you elaborate on the perceived complexity vs the measured complexity with this algorithm?

@c.kiefer What is the time frame to develop 'control'. A traditional cello would take roughly 2 years for basic playing on only a couple of positions. Is 'widening the sweet spot' a risk in limiting a wider expressive space that could be developed over time by simply practising?

I imagine that perceived complexity is also dependent on other features in the sound

Amazing presentation @c.kiefer

yes, perhaps UI could be adjusted for more accessible use if it was of interest to you or people who tried it and found it interesting :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks to all for your input and great questions !!!

And explore the installations! https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/installations/

It was a fantastic session. Thank you @f.schroeder and all presenters!

it could be useful to think about it more as a 'simplicity' detector. there are various factors that cause complexity, but pure tones are usually indicative of heavy feedback (strong attractor)

Thank you very much, @f.schroeder for leading the session!

The Bela drop-in session exploring Trill Touch Sensing For Makers just started. Come along! https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71914998570?pwd=d3dKVk5uN1ByVDRzNS9EaS8xOE5zZz09

I guess you carry on learning for ever, just like an acoustic cello. It doesn't feel so much like stabilisers, or a constraint, more a tool for adding nuance; so you then also have a set of parameters to learn to surf ... maybe just more practice to do : )

Very interesting work, @cavdir! Would love to hear more about how you compose for this interface and whether the gestural or the sonic vocabulary comes first. I imagine the performative/metaphorical aspects of the performance are also important for the viewer besides the embodied experience of the low frequencies. It?s also interesting to see how you adapted the instrument to the gestures and not the other way around.

good point!

thanks @acamci! Yeah, that's a great point, thanks for pointing it out. It was an important aspect in this project to start with the gestural vocabulary adapted from a non-musical domain as well as the shared performance space. Later, we designed the interface/detection mechanism and sound mapping.

Let me know if you have more questions, happy to talk more about it

@ayruos here's the project page: https://www-archive.idmil.org/projects/interface_design/graphical_interfaces

Thanks! :slightly_smiling_face:

Sorry for the slow response here! Its been difficult to think of proper responses to questions while everything else was going on?

It?s a really good question! One of the hopes in starting with the constrained instruments, was that they would provide an open starting point, and that the appropriation of them might be the starting point for a design-conversation with each person, leading to a small collection of bespoke devices over time. In that sense, I hadn?t really thought of this as being separate from a more bespoke process until now. Had I been doing this now, I?d probably be in a better position to answer that question! It would certainly be interesting to develop a bespoke, yet similarly constrained instrument and see what happens, rather than one that attempted not to be too persuasive (while acknowledging that this not really possible)

I?d be surprised if a bespoke instrument wasn?t appropriated in a similar way, but I also wonder if it would be harder to set apart the ideas and techniques that arise primarily from the players? explorations, from the collaboration that goes into designing the bespoke device. I?d have to give this some more thought though, thanks very much!

Thanks @niccolo.granieri, I would rather not have used the video of me to be honest, but I was trying to use video material that I knew I?d have permission for! It was there to serve as an example of the kind of interaction style I might think about prototyping along with that person in future (either for an instrument or a performance). I?m not sure if there?d be much to learn from comparing the saxophone-feedback stuff with the buttons. The feedback system I made was really quite complex in the end!

Yes, I'm around if you have questions!