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@niccolo.granieri set the channel purpose: Channel used to post and discuss generic feedback on NIME2020

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Hi all

sorry, maybe this is not the right place to ask this, but I can't find the zoom link for the NIME Publication Ecosystem Workshop, any idea where to find it?

Hi @mario.buoninfante, you should have received the link from Alexander yesterday via email if you were registered in the workshop!

Hi I received an email, but it says: I will get back to you with the Zoom room we will use, as soon as it is ready.

then I never got the link

You should have received another email after that! I will DM you with the link :slightly_smiling_face:

here we go found it, sorry got lost in the sea of emails, my bad

sorry

sorry, I found the link, but it asks for a password, I tried the one communicated by Hassan yesterday but doesn't work

in Alexander's email I can't find any password mentioned

I sent you a DM :slightly_smiling_face:

FYI: I just found out that the timetable would automatically select UTC+1 for my location (Austria), but I'm really in UTC+2 because of daylight saving, which means the whole schedule is off by one hour... Which is not that bad, now I have one more hour for breakfast :slightly_smiling_face: Is the website supposed to automatically set the correct timezone? Or is UTC+1 just a default value?

..good morning i still havent registered any workshops... is it too late to do it now...?

Hi @info608, I think UTC+1 is the default value, but I'll let @joe.wright explain better.

Hi @info608, yes, the timetable defaults to UK time, the widget is there as a convenience tool so you can change manually to match where you are, but its not aware of your location.

sorry im noob here... what material would be accessible for me now if i haven't registered any workshops day1...?

Hi @imtortorken Some of the workshops dont have a limit on participants, so it may be possible to join those. Everything from tomorrow is open, so you?ll have access to all of that

thanks :slightly_smiling_face: !

thansk!

@joe.wright I wasn't sure if they need an individual zoom room link to access each workshop that includes the one without limit on participants?

Good morning! I have a quick suggestion about how to make the slack more welcoming, especially to community newcomers who may not know many people. I think it would be really helpful to encourage everyone to set up their profile with a photo, their full name (not just first name), a bit about them (e.g., institutional affiliation, or interests, or anything else they may put on a real-life conference name badge). I'd also like the organisers to consider adding the field to the Slack profiles for people to include their pronouns. Thanks!

I?ll add this to the welcome channel, and I?ll look into the field for pronouns now. Thats a great shout, thanks!

Is there any possibility of setting up a channel for socialising, like #social or similar? At the end of workshops it would be nice to continue the conversation :slightly_smiling_face:

:heart: Thanks @joe.wright!

Hi Astrid, social channel incoming! Any preference on the name?

Done

Thank you! :slightly_smiling_face:

omg this one is happening now... is it possible to just peek in it??? i havent registered but it says no limit for participants... https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/human-sound-interaction/

I don't mind about the name, it's just a shame we don't have a hallway to hang out in so we can catch up with the interesting people we meet

I know, it's hard seeing so many cool people on the workshops and no easy form for unstructured chat afterwards!

I'm asking the host right now!

I?ve just messaged him and waiting for a response :)

We're watching a video right now that is also online, but also waiting for a response

So you're not missing anything right now that is not re-watchabe afterwards

Me too.. Want to peek into HSI workshop.

+1

Upon *huge* request, I present to you the #social channel! (https://nime2020.slack.com/archives/C0170HGB5D5) Click on the link to join and begin the conversation!

Here's the link!

Thanks @niccolo.granieri for being so responsive! Much appreciated. :slightly_smiling_face:

thanks

How can i get in the HSI worksop??

@dianneverdonk thank you for the link, If you are in the workshop can you ask Balandino to let me in I am waiting for approval

No probs! I?m afraid I havent yet found a way to add fields to people?s profiles. Is this something you?ve done before? Alternatively, we could ask people to add [your pronouns] after their name. Its not as clean though

same question, it is not really str8 forward

You will want to set up a customised field for member profiles: https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/help/articles/212281478-Customise-member-profiles

Ok, so the link by Dianne is leading to the HSI workshop, waiting for the host to admit me?

This is what it is set up to look like by my employer, for instance

Hello everyone, I have compiled a list of available workshops, times and zoom links! Please understand that the rest of the workshops have reached maximum capacity, which is why they are not on this list. Thank you 10:00 - 13:00 Human Sound Interaction (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/76953616513?pwd=UnFWQlMyS2xHYkpXbWNMajAvR0VJQT09) 13:00 - 14:00 Critical Perspectives on AI/ML in Musical Interfaces (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71810197316?pwd=UTZlUXQxdld6S3grMzROMWpnYWxzUT09) 14:00 - 19:30 Feedback Musicianship (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/74281782999?pwd=U1BBUzdnYlRQbDdwdWtxU3F6N25sUT09) 16:00 - 18:00 Keynote Workshop: SOUL (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/76235085998?pwd=L0VVZ1Ixc01FMFQyTXpXVnV5RzQrQT09) 17:00 - 18:00 NIME Publications Ecosystem Workshop (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/71247234463?pwd=QzJ2Y3NDdnNBOWFQQW9tOHJaMHJTdz09) 21:00 - 22:00 Critical Perspectives on AI/ML in Musical Interfaces (https://us04web.zoom.us/j/77307025910?pwd=UHlhcHY5MEJ2ZmI4N3U4cjk5dnBtQT09)

(and in fact homepage, github, twitter, etc. might also be nice to enable people to add if they'd like?)

still waiting for the host to admit to HSI

brilliant thanks :slightly_smiling_face:

waiting for the host to admit

Just to add to what @hassan.hussain5 said: please be mindful. Try not to enter workshops late, you will interrupt the work being carried out.

I?ll see if I can find where to add that, I?m on a settings trawl at the moment!

On the subject of feedback, @sallyjane.norman and I are putting together a survey to evaluate the first online NIME. Please reply to this thread if you have any suggestions for questions that you would like to see on the survey. Many thanks!

I think it's important to get some basic demographic information (including gender, race, nationality, disability, but also information about # of years active in NIME, student status) so that we can ensure we're able to examine experience across categories and ensure that anything that presents inclusion/accessibility barriers or impacts newcomer experiences is apparent to us (even if it's not an issue for others).

And on that note, at least one open-ended question for people to comment about their experiences of inclusion and accessibility

Thanks so much for this effort, we all appreciate data collection isn't easy. :slightly_smiling_face: I think it would be useful to know about difficulties people experienced in getting information about how/where/when to attend workshops and events, so the organisers of future online editions of NIME can avoid the same pitfalls.

I found a problem in the bibtex file that is in the download of the proceedings. Here is a fixed version.

Oops sorry, I missed the message you?d sent with the link!

Unfortunately adding fields is a paid feature, sorry for that. We have however edited the instructions suggesting people to include pronouns in their description.

Ah ok. Well thanks for looking into it!

Sorry we couldn?t sort that out!

No worries. It's totally easy for people to add it at the end of their "what I do" description.

It would also be very useful to hear about which tools/systems worked well, and possibly come with suggestions for other things that could have worked better.

Dear organizers, I know you must be hyper-busy right now, but is there a calendarized version of the schedule, like as .ics iCal file, or a google calendar?

Hi @schwarz, I am really sorry but we have no calendarized schedule of the conference. I just checked and I can't even export a list from the zoom panel.

Many thanks for all your comments! I have included everything you suggested in the survey form. I?ll wait for Sally Jane to comment when she wakes up in Aotearoa!

This message was deleted.

thanks. Hopefully there will be a combined and indexed one

no problem, we'll survive without it :wink:

the bibtex file can be used as an index

Poster sessions seem a bit empty ... I am wondering if something more could be done to encourage people to get into the poster sessions ... maybe spend a couple of minutes at the end of each paper session to read out the titles of the posters and post a clearly visible link to the posters on the chat?

That's an excellent point Giulio! We're going to notify chairs about your feedback and try to implement it!

seems that many people cant find the links - may be drop the list in social or somewhere? (Like Hassan did for the Workshops)

@niccolo.granieri thanks, that'd be great. The same for breakout groups, or more in general, at the end of each Zoom session clearly say what's happening next and where, and at the same time paste a direct link on the chat. No more excuses!

This is a cross post. *So happy to be part of NIME this year.* I am surprised to find the language, style and of presentation and descriptions on the site quite dense and of an academic style. Music and experimentation have soft, dirty, intriguing and feely edges. We are also in a space which talks of ACCESS for disability (and of all natures) so often. How can we rethink the presentation and blurbs of the papers to reflect this? How can we avoid the TOTALLY UNACCESSIBLE scientific journal style of presentation yet retain specificity without 'dumbing down'? #newchannel?

I think when you come to any community - in academia, art, music, anywhere - there are established ways of thinking and doing things, and a language that everyone seems to speak. It takes a bit of getting used to. Not every subcommunity of NIME is into the dense scientific discourse, but I'm glad it's here because I learn so much from it. It's a different way of seeing and thinking about the work I do.

You do bring up an interesting point about "accessibility" though - maybe we need a wider discussion about what we mean by that word.

i wonder if slack channels are created for demo, would it encourage more interaction? someone like myself, find it a bit on the spot to converse one-on-one with the researcher/artist

Hi @noris, that is an excellent point. We envisioned posters and demos to be a mixture between one-on-one conversation via zoom, a simple chat through the zoom chat (with which we struggled, but are trying to fix) and slack where you can contact the author personally to continue the conversation! How does this sound to you? Do you still think you would prefer a poster/demo dedicated channel?

Hi @x and @abi Thanks both of you for your insightful comments. And I agree that this would be a very valuable conversation to open up to the wider community. I?ll try to get a channel set up for this as quickly as I can, although I?m chairing the next session so this may not happen until lunch. @a.r.jensenius do you think a chat space like this would be useful to tie in with the NIME ecosystem workshops you?ve been running?

I think this is a fair solution as there is an option not to have the camera on and interaction can be done via chat. Thank you!

Super, thanks @noris

I also just wanted to add that most (if not all) of the people who dropped into my demo weren't aware that there was a video link on the conference hub to watch. I just posted the YouTube link for my demo to the chat in Zoom, but it seemed like the chat history is not persistent. So for each new person dropping by, I re-posted the video link. I don't know if a slack channel for demos solves this? Or perhaps there is a setting in the Zoom chat that allows the entire history of messages to appear to all participants? It might be especially useful if people have shared resources like papers or other works for it to remain persistent through the session. You guys are doing a great job by the way. I almost feel guilty posting in this feedback! But I was able to make some great connections and have good conversations in the demo session. Cheers!

Thanks for this @matthew.d.hughes, seems like people are having a hard time in finding the conference hub and we're trying to think of a solution. Feedback is always welcome, so please do not feel even slightly guilty! Thanks

The paper IDs used in the Paper Pre-Proceedings do not match the paper IDs we were originally given. IMO this is a little confusing.

@f.schroeder could you please clarify the paper ID issue mentioned?

My paper when submitted on CMT and on the ?NIME Paper Sessions_Schedule2020? spreadsheet was given a paper ID of ?55" and yet in the Paper Pre-Proceedings it is paper ?10?.

Yes, I think this is a very good comment, @x, thanks for bringing it up! NIME is in many ways a "community of communities", so you will find different language used, I think. But it is true that scientific/academic papers and presentations may often not be accessible outside of the specific sub-discipline. This is something we need to work on together, I think, and it should definitely be thought of as part of our larger "ecosystem".

I think the original IDs were related to the submission system. As not all papers were accepted, this would not have been a continuous range of numbers.

I'm using the bibtex file as a way to find the matching papers to the presentations. With either a text editor, or a dedicated bibliography browsing/editing program that can read .bib files, it is quite easy to find each paper from the title.

specifically on Linux, I am using KBibTex for this

Can also easily be imported into Zotero (cross-platform solution).

Thanks. Hopefully @f.schroeder can merge this into the final .bib-file.

I just made a zip archive with titles

uploading right now

@g.moro, thank you so much!

Could you pass me a link when you?re done? I?ll swap it for the existing pre-proceedings. I?m not sure Romain is on here yet, but I may ask you to pass what you did on to him, as I beleive he was taking care of the paper files

Thanks so much @g.moro!

zip archive of proceedings with titles

Thank you!

for reference, I used this script with `pdfgrep` to match most of the titles, using this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CJYWgx-YGMzT86ot-lODF4xUJRQ_U73xzvn19UQKAo8/edit#gid=0 as the source for the titles

Thanks @g.moro, this link is now also up on the conference hub, so you can grab them from there too https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/conference-hub/

Awesome! I?ll pass that on

That?s perfectly fine, but what is the order? It certainly not presentation order or alphabetical. Random? It would be useful to know.

Thank you for opening this up everyone -  I understand the benefits of the academic style and a model for presentation of projects. (Having attended many events) Just reflecting on some of the content - multiple contributors are rethinking collaboration technique as a practice in itself - to be more open and including users from the inception of the idea - a practice which the more advanced companies and tech entities are doing very successfully. NIME conferences may be the only place where these projects are collected together for the perusal and digestion of potential new users and collaborators. Would it not follow along the lines of access and collaboration for the presentations and their descriptions to be of a style that was most accessible to people both inside and outside of the academic sphere -  inside *and* *outside* of the NIME-specific community.

hello, maybe there could be a channel for comments on installations? Or some sort of announcement mentioning them? Thanks.

Hi Tate! Installations run throughout the conference. Some of them, have slack channels that you should be able to access from the installation page itself. Others instead, would require you to DM the authors directly!

I actually don't see contact links or slack on any of the installations. Am I looking in the wrong place?

i just saw a channel for chronophonics pop up, could i get one for my installation immaterial.cloud?

Oh i just guessed that i didn't have rights

thanks for your responses!

actually it looks like its private and maybe no one else sees it?

Sure :slightly_smiling_face:

If there?s not a general installations channel, then can we have one for Liquid Noise please?

Sure :slightly_smiling_face:

Just created a new thread to discuss the accessibility of nime delivery and its proceedings, instigated by some good comments on this channel earlier. Do get involved if you have any thoughts! https://nime2020.slack.com/archives/C017HA3J877

Hey all! Maybe it has already been proposed somewhere, but: is this Slack for the NIME community going to remain? I'd really love it to. It is such a valuable thing to be able to contact the community, use it as a kind of forum, maybe open new topics, etc. How do people of our community think about this? Please share your thoughts and ideas, thanks!

Hi Dianne, that's a good point. I don't think Slack is the best solution due to the free version deleting messages after a certain number.... but something similar for sure! It's being discussed #nime-delivery-and-ecosystem right now!

Cool! I'll head there

I have some feedback about making the Slack comments more legible for someone coming in after the presentations have aired. (I?m in California, so nearly all the presentations are while I?m asleep.) It might be helpful to write a little header in the chat saying ?the comments below this line are posted during the Nth presentation?, to help orient someone reading through the chat later on.

It may be confusing also when following in real-time because they overlap between adjacent presentations ... Maybe we could ask people could @ the presenter? That has been done a bit already

good suggestions! @f.schroeder, will you let the paper chairs know that they could help in this?

Also, are the presentations always going in the same order as the YouTube playlists?

I think in all paper sessions the list of papers was given in the chat. I think that matches up with the youtube playlist, but I haven't checked.

Is it possible to watch the Drake Music Presentation and Gig again? Can you supply a youtube link?

Hi @x. Unfortunately the live portions of the keynote are not available on Youtube. You can view two out of the three keynote performances on Youtube, always using the link provided in the Timetable & Zoom Links page. If you're wondering where that is, here's a brief recap (Slackbotlinks):

Dear attendee, If you want to know how to navigate the conference, please always make sure you start from the Conference Hub - http://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/conference-hub/ Once you're there, all the links can be found in the "Timetable & Zoom Links" page. Remember to set the "show all links and details" on the top right to "yes" in order to reveal all the links and a detailed view. From the Conference Hub, you can also navigate to the three separate poster and demo pages, useful both to peruse all the materials in your own time, and to access the zoom rooms in the allocated hours throughout the links. The same thing applies to installations: the Installations page will enable you to have a global view of all the installations of NIME2020. Thank you!

Yes, the playlists are in the same order as the papers, that way if you?re watching asynchronously from another time zone, the order should be the same as the comments left in slack during the ?live? session. Hope that helps!

@g.moro that was a great suggestion! We?ve asked paper chairs to say this upfront for the remaining paper sessions

During the first session today, I was waiting with the Zoom window open, saying "the webinar will begin soon", but by the time I got connected, the host had already started speaking.

This is a good shout Giulio. We'll make sure chairs wait a moment before commencing. The joining of attendees happens in waves.

thanks. Right now it worked fine. Maybe I was in the first wave.

@g.moro funnily, I experienced your same issue this time! How weird.

Same here!

I?ll relay this to the paper chairs. Thanks @g.moro

does paper session 6 start now or in an hour?

We're live now @x ! Come join us!

wierd my Zoom link froze

Following the beginning of the fractured access discussion (https://nime2020.slack.com/archives/C017DQ2MQE9/p1595415381099000) There are many people interested in Access and its meanings in the NIME context - both with a view to projects / design / testing / collaboration but also maybe more crucially to accessing NIME content / presentations / descriptions etc... Can an admin please make a channel? #access-nime-event #access-projects ? (just room name suggestions)

Is this fixed now?

Hi @x, @joe.wright, @hassan.hussain5 and I were wondering if the #nime-delivery-and-ecosystem channel recently created could be a good fit for your topic. We've been trying to accomodate any channel request so far but we feel that we're reaching a channel saturation point :smile:. Do you think a dedicated thread on the above mentioned channel could be a good solution? Let us know, we're open to suggestions.

I totally understand - theres a lot of channels! I wonder if the name is a bit coded which defeats the point of access. Potentially rename it? Two birds with one stone?

*Delivery* + *ecosystem* are words which could be seen as jargon - something to avoid. Is it possible to rename the channel to involve the word *access*?

This is a good idea. I?m really bad at naming things, I?ll change to access + ecosystem

Thank you @x!

I?ve kept the ecosystem part, because I think these debates tie in with the NIME ecosystem workshops at the start of the week. Hopefully this will draw a wider pool of people into the discussion :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, good. There are quite many channels already, so good to not expand even further. But perhaps we should all be better at replying in threads, rather than new messages. That would make it easier to follow the discussions, I think.

pleeease yes!

That brilliant @joe.wright and thank you @niccolo.granieri and @hassan.hussain5. I'll repost in there. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK on this event in general! Its really appreciated on this end.

Brilliant

I've found that once I enter a poster/demo room I end up staying for much longer than I would for a physical session. Also the discussion has been deeper and more informative. So there are also pluses. Just like every year I feel the poster/demo session is too short! One of the best parts of the conference IMO.

Reply posted to main thread.

Just as a brainstorm, I would like to suggest two ideas: (1) make the poster/demo sessions longer as these are currently de-emphasized (2) choose a proportion (say 50%) of the talks with a lottery system. Looking at the presenters it is clear that papers with one or more very experienced authors have a large advantage in being selecting for oral presentation. This is natural and to be expected, but I think it would liven and diversify the oral sessions to de-emphasize the selective advantage. Another way to do this is to limit the number of oral presentations by author (not presenter).

Hi @michael.lyons, you bring up some extremely valuable points. From what I remember, the importance and value of Posters and Demos was a topic that was discussed already at NIME19 in Brazil (and probably before that too). I believe that you are completely spot on, but it is also hard to fit so much content without effectively creating 16-hour long days. This year, we enforced 1 hour breaks to avoid zoom fatigue and there wasn't any more space left (in fact, the "unconference" day became a normal conference day due to the amount of sessions). I don't if and how this would differ in an in-person context, but I think the issues would be similar. It is definitely something to think about. And your second point too is something that I have personally noticed. While I don't feel that a lottery system is the right way to go (papers would not be peer reviewed) but it's an interesting point of discussion. I'm wondering if we could use this thread as a starting point and see how everyone else in the community feels about this.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting getting rid of peer review (!), but there is usually a second choice to be made after papers are selected regarding presentation format. Typically highly evaluated papers are selected for oral presentation and others are presented in poster sessions. My suggestion is to incorporate either (1) a degree of randomness in the selection of oral presentation vs. poster presentation or (2) a limit on presentation slots/author, as some very experienced authors dominate the oral program.

@michael.lyons I think your second point would really help with diversity at NIME without compromising on the quality of the presentations. It?s worth looking at examples from other scholarly communities in the humanities where this approach is established practice.

with 2nd or 3rd authors I imagine it would be difficult to put a limit on it, as that would break the academic culture, where supervising professors also contribute to the paper writing, as part of the process of teaching (PhD) students to write.

at some conferences a kind of pechakucha style presentations to introduce the demos was used, so that people had an idea of where they wanted to drop into, rather than having to read through the website.

This is a great thread, thanks for starting it @michael.lyons. It is very challenging to find an optimal solution here, so any pointers to other communities/conferences that are doing things differently would be very useful!

colloquial papers are also a great way to get different kind of presentations in, of younger authors, that are explicitly looking for input.

My thought on the posters (esp. if we have a similar format in future) would be to do a 30-60 second run-down of each in the main meeting. This would obviously take time and be very cursory, but particularly in this format, my impression is posters/demos are getting poor attendance. Presumably this is in part because the a) there is non-trivial initiative required to investigate the topic prior to dropping in, and if you haven't done it, it can feel _super_ awkward if it ends up only you and the presenter, and b) there is SO much going on, including being home, that in the competition for my attention, posters/demos are losing out. Usually you can walk through, get a quick idea of things, and enter and leave engagements with less... social awkwardness. So yes to pechakucha style presentations.

I like your idea of pechakucha-style presentations @marije (or at least shorter and more focused presentations). I also find it difficult to engage with the posters. Usually I am so exhausted after the presentation sessions, and need a break. So figuring out a smart way of doing this differently could be interesting. I wonder whether grouping posters (4-5) together in one Zoom room could be a solution. That could create a space for a slightly larger crowd and more discussion across topics.

@a.r.jensenius I love the idea of a Zoom room, but the challenges of internet audio would make that really hard. Only one person gets to make understandable noise at a time.

@marije I do not propose placing a quota on how many articles are selected from a certain group, but on how many are presented n the oral session. I think it could bring diversity to the oral sessions to give access to authors not associated with virtuoso NIME authors. Regarding doing poster previews, I have very mixed feelings about this. A number of conferences do this and it often turns into a comedy session - who can tell the best one liner about their project. Perhaps this has entertainment value, but many authors feel insulted about having to do this - it may highlight a two-class system at the conference.

A possible solution to address the issue of vanishing attention, but a potentially controversial one, would be to accept less submissions across all NIME tracks. This would also address Amble?s points for a more accessible conference.

As a very practice issue right now. The poster link page is not directly linked to the hub page. That's a small but significant navigational barrier from the outset.

Correction, it's not linked from here: https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/timetable-zoom-links/#day4 One has to open the hub page to get the poster room links.

A bit late now, but a link from that first page to the poster link place would be a good idea. Very detailed, sorry.

@michael.lyons but then how would you choose between the articles from a certain group? first authors are different, and for each of them it might be their first presentation. Poster previews: concise summaries are indeed difficult to make, but these kind of previews are useful, as they give a different interface to reading to find the interesting bits. Normally, you'd be able to wander around and catch something by seeing it.

@michael.lyons https://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/conference-hub/ has pages linked for each days for the poster

and in the time table, if you have show all details you get the titles and links

short abstracts of the posters in addition to the title, could have made the navigation a bit faster. Fewer clicks to get a sense of the content, and all the abstracts for one session in one place, rather than spread out on different pages.

We?ll bear this in mind if we do something like this again @marije, we had to put the site content together with very little time, and it could definitely be smoother!

@marije I do not have a total solution, but just thinking about how to work with the fact that the oral presentation sessions are dominated by virtuoso authors and how to increase accessibility for others.

On a more general level: I think that poster, demo and oral presentations are catering to different types of contributions. So it is not really feasible to filter them out based on authors, as in my perception it is about content type.

In terms of access: I think that there are different considerations here. I think it is good to get student work in, and have that as a poster about their student work, if that gives the student a first access to the community. From more established authors I'd want more in-depth research that is more suited to oral presentations. Double-blind review might be adverse to that (if that is even possible). In that sense a clear position about the context in which research was produced, allows to filter out content better, so that it is easier to give access to a variety of authors, and set higher levels for more established authors. Another method that is sometimes used (not sure whether NIME did it) is to check whether projects were presented at other conferences already, to avoid duplication.

Yes sure, indeed some authors elect for a poster presentation rather than talk. By the same token there are talks that would work better as posters. However one observation we can certainly make is that posters are de-emphasized in the schedule. And that there is a preponderance of very experienced authors in the oral presentations (either experienced author presenting, or student of experienced author presenting). We should be aware of that and think about the implications.

@michael.lyons I think I'm not alone in feeling that the paper sessions have gone really well in terms of engagement. I wouldn't normally suggest pechakucha-style presentations, but in this virtual context, it presents as one of the best options for helping poster/demos share in some of what _is_ working. And as I mentioned, in this virtual context, the casual engagement you get walking through a hall with a cup of tea, and the option that gives for you as a viewer to directly engage/stand back is often missing. How do we overcome that?

Yes, it does look like something extra is needed for the poster/demo presentation. No complaints from me about the quality of the oral presentations this year. And it has also worked very well online.

@laurel.pardue Re: one minute previews, one possible solution to the avoiding possible feelings of differential humiliation is to have one minute previews for both poster and oral presentation formats, aka conference fast forward. Additionally I think the poster/demo sessions themselves should be at least 1.5 hours instead of 1 hour. This will mean cutting back on the number of oral presentations.

wishlist: it'd be great if the name of the presenter was on screen the whole time, whereas currently one only sees the session chair's name

I've tried to make it clear in the chat sessions, by announcing who was speaking.

thanks much appreciated!

I might need some help with that in the next one, as I'll be chairing it.

Your notes have really helped Marije, thanks so much for your efforts!

Captioning has been extremely helpful, but captioning obscures the bottom portion of many slides, which often contain the main point of that particular slide. Perhaps future events could scale slides to allow room for captions?

Hi Dave, this is an excellent comment! Would you mind insert it in our NIME2020 feedback form? We're trying to collect as much constructive criticism as possible! Click here to get redirected to the survery: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSeh092192meXaHhRf25h7kOm7IAkB3ft5_Cy-cC6l6p3yDw/viewform

Great hint and I think the scaling would also allow to persistently include the name of the presenter [and maybe the title of the work?] as requested by @g.moro. I second that.

Can anyone comment on whether the Youtube playlists will be made open access, or if it will be possible to share these outside the conference at any point?

Hi @mark.durham, let me tag you in the thread where this is being discussed.

@juan.jpma, @abi, @laurel.pardue, @tragtenberg and @adnan.marquez created this survey alongside the one we shared yesterday! Please make sure you find the time to complete both, this is extremely important for the future of NIME! Thanks :)

Great idea, would be very useful to keep up the open discussion and easy direct contact:+1:

@niccolo.granieri Can you tag me too? I guess there are many others who would like to know this.

I will do something better, I will re-share the thread with a global tag in the general feedback channel. Watch out for it!

Here is the thread with the feedback forms! Please take a moment to fill them both: 1. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSeh092192meXaHhRf25h7kOm7IAkB3ft5_Cy-cC6l6p3yDw/viewform 2. https://forms.gle/Lz9XbWizLiXsKquEA Thanks!

That's awesome! Maybe it's still time to include a question on gender?...

Hi @tiago.brizolara-da-ro! Thanks for the feedback, which forma are you referring to? And what question would you like to add?

Slack message count is over 7k. If it will exceed 10k, you will start losing messages, including possibly some of the early feedback! Backup everything!

We are aware, thanks @g.moro! :smile:

I was referring to the form on minorities representation in NIME. Asking gender in the same way race/ethnicity was asked... just an idea :slightly_smiling_face:

I would suggest sending out a (however informal) survey to those who had poster/demos/installations to try and quantify the amount of people that showed up at the sessions and gather their specific feedback on the presentation format. In all those I have been to, it was just the presenter(s), I and possibly one or more two people, but maybe the presenters I visited were just unlucky.

Good idea! That form has been created by @juan.jpma, @abi, @laurel.pardue, @tragtenberg and @adnan.marquez so I don't have editing rights. But let them reply from here on! :slightly_smiling_face:

Personally I see the secondary survey as an annex that tries to scope the race/ethnicity/nationality aspects of the conference more in depth and adds to the general survey which also addresses the gender diversity aspects. The surveys are non-exclusive between each other

You can still download the full archive I believe

We have already downloaded all the messages from the conference, so even if we were to go over 10k, we have everything backed up :slightly_smiling_face:

:heart:

@niccolo.granieri It's so impressive how you folks are absolutely on top of everything! :trophy:

Thanks @abi! I believe that tonight, around 9:01pm, @joe.wright, @hassan.hussain5 and I will fall into a deep sleep and wake up in 2021 just in time to submit for the next NIME. But it was totally worth it! :joy:

@marije wow! I had no idea! Thanks for the info!

@x You bring up a good point. As a non-musician, I've felt incredibly fortunate to be a part of this community, which has embraced and supported me and my work for many years now. I've often struggled, in the past decade, to engage with discourses that seem inaccessible or beyond/above my level of understanding, and the academic style of research and writing has certainly contributed to that. That being said, I do find that I've been pushed to grow and learn as an individual/practitioner/researcher for these very same reasons, and I think that the overall attitude of the community is one of openness and support. Where I've often found myself feeling ostracized or disregarded in other venues (CHI, for example, though I don't mean to cast any aspersions, I very much appreciate and enjoy much of CHI), the NIME community has encouraged me to engage and contribute from my own points of strength, and I think that's a really unique (and rare) thing. That's all to say that I think part of the work involved here is continuing to foster that spirit of openness and inclusion among practitioners both inside and outside of academia and continually evaluate and re-evaluate who we are reaching out to and encouraging to join the community--which is an *active* process, not a passive one.

I meant, slack keeps all the messages, and even if you go over the 10k limit, you can still download them all. It's then super easy to import them all into a self-hosted platform.. and then regain access to full history.

a forum is a great way to be able to pose the kinds of questions I?ve been able to get addressed by wonderful people over slack! :slightly_smiling_face: looking forward to it

I meant to @ you, @alex above, actually, but for some reason I thought Marije had sent the message. Thanks!

it's hard to keep all those livecoders apart ;)

yes, we are as one

If I remember well, for ISMIR 2018 ALL papers had 5min plenary presentation and a poster...

Just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who put this amazing week together under such challenging circumstances! :pray:

@niccolo.granieri I was so tired I filled all of the nime feedback into the 'minorities survey'. I'm really sorry! Would you mind copying my answers from there to the generel Nime 2020 Survey feedback? I filled quite extensive answers, and I cannot see those, as far as I know (otherwise I would have filled it out again but it took me quite a while to type it). Please let me know if that will do, and thanks again for the great work in organizing the conference, you rock!

Yeah. Even from the other side of the world and opposite time zone I felt connected. Great work and thank you! x

_Towards an *Asynchronous Conference*?_ I think we all understand and appreciate what an enormous effort this year's organisers put into transforming NIME into an on-line conference :clap:. It mainly followed the outline of an on-site one (sessions with slots and too little time for questions), but went further in a few points (presentation playlists, online discussion). These gave me an intuition how advantageous an asynchronous on-line conference could be, like roughly: ? publish the presentation videos and papers one week in advance of the conference for viewing at leasure (at 1.25 speed as I do, pausing for looking up details, skipping known parts) ? pre-collect questions for each paper on a forum, allow comments and voting for questions ? at the conference, maybe after a 1 min reminder of the paper, the authors would then summarise and answer the questions and engage in further live discussion with the on-line audience (for ~10 min or so), going into break-out meetings for in-depth follow-ups ? related papers' authors could also gather in on-line round table discussions (as has happened spontaneously here on slack) What do you think, @channel?

These are good thoughts!

~@niccolo.granieri sent you a pm~

@schwarz an interesting model, perhaps extreme, since there are certainly some memorable talks that would not fit well into 5 minutes. And the talk Q & A sessions have been one of the highlights of the online experience at this year's NIME.

comment moved to thread ...

@schwarz Sounds perhaps something like the multimedia archive with open peer commentary that is being discussed?

@michael.lyons,yes but ahead of the conference, and keeping the nature of that event where everyone is present (virtually) and available for live exchange.

Very nice ideas @schwarz!

seems quite a good idea, maybe it could be possible then to create discussion groups during the conference, based on topics

this type of approach will also make it more accessible to people, as they can choose when to watch things, and create their own pacing.

And the forum approach can allow for more of a discussion of questions to build up in advance between people who are in different time zones :)

The drawback though is the work to create a presentation video. I don't know how others felt, but I know most of my colleagues found it a lot more work than putting together a regular presentation- dealing with audio, editing, learning how to use video software. Admittedly I went particulalrly overboard with one of my videos, but it took multiple days to get things made. For instance if my demo video had been an in person demo, it probably would have taken half-a-day in prep as opposed to 4-5 days between two of us. And if the deadline for advance videos falls during term time, it is a whole bunch of extra stress. As audience, yeah, up for asynchronous, but as presenter, I found it a lot of extra work.

Hi @laurel.pardue, the result was worth the extra time, I really loved your videos. :slightly_smiling_face::heart: I agree that one spends more time making a video than preparing a presentation. I would argue that's because one sets a higher stake, and rightfully so, since the video will (should) be a permanent accompaniment to the paper. If you consider the time for doing the research and writing the paper, the video is just a small percentage, and it will get smaller with practice.

One idea is to see the live, synchronous event as an 'opening' of a yearly edition of a multimedia archive and journal. Kind of a celebration event or festival of the annual harvest of knowledge.

There could be a contribution or 'upload' season, a peer-review and peer-commentary season, and then a few days celebration of the 'harvest'.

Perhaps when the pandemic has passed part of the harvest festival can take place at a few hubs, to reduce long-distance travel.

Props to everyone on the organization committee for #nime2020! It was an enjoyable and very stimulating event. No doubt that recquired incredible effort behind the scenes.

I'm convinced that international conferences should go online in future. As a brainstorm here is a perhaps unusual idea: we could recast the annual live, synchronous event as an 'opening' of a yearly edition of a multimedia archive and journal. Kind of a celebration event or festival for the annual harvest of knowledge. There could be a contribution or 'upload' season, a peer-review and peer-commentary season, and then a few days joint celebration of the 'harvest'. Perhaps when the pandemic has passed part of the harvest festival can take place at distributed hubs, to reduce long-distance travel.

The pandemic is an opportunity to make some fundamental changes. This year's organizers made an excellent evolutionary adaptation to the new circumstances and it would be a mistake to try to go back to business as usual.

Even a small fraction of the financial resources used in the past for air travel and accommodation would cover the infrastructure needed to run a rich multimedia archive and academic journal.

Full support for this @michael.lyons. Perhaps if a funding source is available there is still room for a mobility grant, where early career researchers can apply to travel on a long-term visit for cultural exchange. I feel some travel is still necessary, but should be much more targetted and made more of via e.g. local collaboration and touring during such visits

Here's a document I wrote with collected thoughts about a distributed music tech conference (ICLC) last year: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uH-KVrDH-vYdmTxE7MGALb1veghPZYoEKTXFt1yyqBY/edit#heading=h.qsg5291lhoq

please find the video of our live stream, for those who could not see it: https://youtu.be/0bb9VF_VmKU Experimental live streaming concert on 25.07.2020 for NIME conference at 21-25 July, Royal Birmingham Conservatoire @ Atelier Avant Austria by Se-Lien Chuang, Yan-Zin, bass recorder, interactive visuals Andreas Weixler, electric guitar, realtime audio processing visual programmed in Max/Jitter spectral delay, spectral freeze reverb, multichannel granular synthesis in Max/MSP http://avant.mur.at

Hi all, is there any place where we can watch all talks? some links don't work, from the nime "hub"...

Hi @oeg6bp, I just checked all the links on the Timetable & Links page and they all work for me! Let me know if you have any trouble.

And I also just added all the keynote links too! So you should literally be able to access everything from here: http://nime2020.bcu.ac.uk/timetable-links

*Live Streaming Sets could have some youtube links. day5*

You're right @weixler, let me fix that straight away :slightly_smiling_face:

thanx.

All done!

great youtube links & slack.